"lecture preparation": a new form of active learning?

[Amir Michail]

Hi,

I was wondering if you could give me feedback on the following idea
for active learning. (I don't know if it is new or not.)

The idea is this:

* allocate say 20% of the final mark for "lecture preparation"

* release detailed lecture notes one week in advance; if detailed
lecture notes are not available, then at least release the standard
notes along with some references that students can look up

* students must discuss the lecture in a slashdot-style forum
BEFORE the lecture is given; the discussion occurs among students
only

* students are rewarded for good questions, good answers to questions
posted by other students, insightful comments, slashdot-style
moderation,
coverage of most of the lecture, and participating in most lecture
discussions

* only original postings count for marks so cheating should not be
much of a problem

The goals behind all of this are the following:
* maximize student understanding of the lecture (I think it is less
likely that that they would be lost if they have thought about and
discussed the material already with their peers.)
* encourage students to learn on their own
* encourage students to discuss deep concepts with their peers
* encourage students to be more analytical of lecture content
* allow the lectures to be more advanced and conceptual in nature
than is possible without student lecture preparation

In addition, the professor can watch this discussion in progress and
improve the lecture presentation and notes before the lecture is given
and the notes finalized.

Do you think this would work? Has anyone tried it?

Amir

[Herman Family]

If you have the students go over the lecture before it happens, then why are
you going to do the lecture? You'll be behind the students, rather than
ahead of them. Furthermore, the lecture serves to bring data not in the
book to the students, in some cases it is information which could not be in
the book or notes.

Try having the students come up with problems for your exams. They should
give the problem, solution, and an indication of how or why a student might
err.

Michael

Post by Amir Michail
Hi,
I was wondering if you could give me feedback on the following idea
for active learning. (I don't know if it is new or not.)
* allocate say 20% of the final mark for "lecture preparation"
* release detailed lecture notes one week in advance; if detailed
lecture notes are not available, then at least release the standard
notes along with some references that students can look up
* students must discuss the lecture in a slashdot-style forum
BEFORE the lecture is given; the discussion occurs among students
only
* students are rewarded for good questions, good answers to questions
posted by other students, insightful comments, slashdot-style
moderation,
coverage of most of the lecture, and participating in most lecture
discussions
* only original postings count for marks so cheating should not be
much of a problem
* maximize student understanding of the lecture (I think it is less
likely that that they would be lost if they have thought about and
discussed the material already with their peers.)
* encourage students to learn on their own
* encourage students to discuss deep concepts with their peers
* encourage students to be more analytical of lecture content
* allow the lectures to be more advanced and conceptual in nature
than is possible without student lecture preparation
In addition, the professor can watch this discussion in progress and
improve the lecture presentation and notes before the lecture is given
and the notes finalized.
Do you think this would work? Has anyone tried it?
Amir

[Brian Harvey]

Post by Herman Family
If you have the students go over the lecture before it happens, then why are
you going to do the lecture? You'll be behind the students, rather than
ahead of them. Furthermore, the lecture serves to bring data not in the
book to the students, in some cases it is information which could not be in
the book or notes.

I'm having trouble imagining information that couldn't be in the book
or notes. My idea about lecturing is that there is generally *too much*
information in the book for the students to see the big picture, and
that's my job in lecture -- steering them through the forest. But my
notes do that, too. Mainly the reason for having lectures is that it
keeps those who attend more or less up to date so they don't try to
learn the whole course the day before the final.

We webcast and archive our lectures, so we're starting to consider
the possibility that we should put some effort into putting together
a "best-of" selection from several semesters' lectures, and then
stop giving lectures, except when a topic in the course changes.
On the other hand, some of the students really seem to appreciate
having a live human being up there, and they do get to ask questions
in lecture.

[Herman Family]

Generally when I lecture I try to demonstrate the material at hand, show how
it relates to the rest of the entire world, and show how to look at it to
understand it more easily. I also push the students to look at the many
different connections to make between points in the book. On regular
occasion, I will show how common items exhibit the concepts taught in the
course. I suppose a lot of this could be filmed and archived, but it would
be dry for everyone but the initial class.

I also check on how the students are doing, and fill in where they are weak.
This is a continual effort done at the beginning of each class. Since each
class is different, it would be difficult to get one video to work for every
student.

While lecture notes are great, they are generally a starting point only for
a good instructor. If your students can discuss the material and get enough
out of it, so be it. Webcasting and archived lectures sound great, but I've
found that my best lectures involve a lot of student interaction, so no two
classes would come out the same.

Your proposal would work on certain topics and in certain schools. I'm not
all that sure it would work in my topics, however.

Michael

Post by Brian Harvey

Post by Herman Family
If you have the students go over the lecture before it happens, then why are
you going to do the lecture? You'll be behind the students, rather than
ahead of them. Furthermore, the lecture serves to bring data not in the
book to the students, in some cases it is information which could not be in
the book or notes.

I'm having trouble imagining information that couldn't be in the book
or notes. My idea about lecturing is that there is generally *too much*
information in the book for the students to see the big picture, and
that's my job in lecture -- steering them through the forest. But my
notes do that, too. Mainly the reason for having lectures is that it
keeps those who attend more or less up to date so they don't try to
learn the whole course the day before the final.
We webcast and archive our lectures, so we're starting to consider
the possibility that we should put some effort into putting together
a "best-of" selection from several semesters' lectures, and then
stop giving lectures, except when a topic in the course changes.
On the other hand, some of the students really seem to appreciate
having a live human being up there, and they do get to ask questions
in lecture.

[Brian Harvey]

Post by Herman Family
Generally when I lecture I try to demonstrate the material at hand, show how
it relates to the rest of the entire world, and show how to look at it to
understand it more easily. I also push the students to look at the many
different connections to make between points in the book.

This was in response to my

Post by Herman Family

Post by Brian Harvey
My idea about lecturing is that there is generally *too much*
information in the book for the students to see the big picture, and
that's my job in lecture -- steering them through the forest.

Sounds like we agree more than we disagree. I provide notes
mainly because I don't want my students writing during lecture;
when I was a student I never took notes because I find that I
can't really think and write at the same time. But if a student
prefers to skip the lecture and just read the notes, because s/he
doesn't get a lot of benefit from the question-and-answer aspect
of lecture, I don't get upset about it.

When we talk about stopping lecturing (still mostly just talk),
part of the idea is that we would instead spend our time offering
discussion sections, or being in the lab sections along with the
TAs, etc. So the students would get more opportunity to interact
with us in small groups. (Our lecture sections are 100-150 students
in the upper division, and several hundred in the lower division.)

[Herman Family]

Brian,

I wouldn't doubt that we would find ourselves in agreement on most points.
As you were kind enough to show where your point comes from I can see why we
appear to disagree on points. The classes I taught were in the order of 7
to 35 students. If I had to lecture to 100 to 150 students, then I would
have to move to a different method, which would probably include releasing
more lecture notes, having discussion groups, etc. In essence, you are
trying to get your classes to where mine were, enlightening us both along
the way. I will not debate the wisdom of that. I am a strong believer in
small instructional groups to allow for great interaction. It forces each
person to use the material, instead of just trying to soak it up. Mastery
comes from use.

As far as note taking during class goes, I'm also in doubt of its value.
Most of the material is in the book anyway, and the students are supposed to
study that. If we are mostly in the business of showing connections and
making it more personal, then I would think that active participation would
be of much greater value than blindly writing things down. Since I can't
read my own handwriting, I don't think I've actually read my notes very
often, yet I still managed to gain a certain mastery of the subjects. If
the lecture notes were handed out prior to class, with some room for
students to do a bit of work on them as needed, it would be a bit better.
Time presently spent attempting to transcribe the teachers thoughts could be
spent working with the material.

Michael

Post by Brian Harvey

Post by Herman Family
Generally when I lecture I try to demonstrate the material at hand, show how
it relates to the rest of the entire world, and show how to look at it to
understand it more easily. I also push the students to look at the many
different connections to make between points in the book.

This was in response to my

Post by Herman Family

Post by Brian Harvey
My idea about lecturing is that there is generally *too much*
information in the book for the students to see the big picture, and
that's my job in lecture -- steering them through the forest.

Sounds like we agree more than we disagree. I provide notes
mainly because I don't want my students writing during lecture;
when I was a student I never took notes because I find that I
can't really think and write at the same time. But if a student
prefers to skip the lecture and just read the notes, because s/he
doesn't get a lot of benefit from the question-and-answer aspect
of lecture, I don't get upset about it.
When we talk about stopping lecturing (still mostly just talk),
part of the idea is that we would instead spend our time offering
discussion sections, or being in the lab sections along with the
TAs, etc. So the students would get more opportunity to interact
with us in small groups. (Our lecture sections are 100-150 students
in the upper division, and several hundred in the lower division.)